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Post by brownbomber on Feb 20, 2006 10:47:55 GMT
Saw Whitehouse in Clwb iFor Bach last night. Totally lacklustre performance. Vaguely embarrassing to see a Cliff Richard lookalike and his pinhead mate trying to shock and outrage a small collection of students half their age. The sound was third rate japanoise circa 1997 with no intensity and no imagination. Like a bad Incapacitants tribute band. Are Whitehouse the Rolling Stones of extreme music? Perhaps Willaim should stick to golf and advise the sorry pinhead Best to stop humiliating himself in public - keep your shirt on Philip, at least William has kept in trim, and if you really must carry Mr Best consider a hat Personal barbs aside how long can these keep delivering such lame shows just for the cash? Are we all too keen to keep the freak show rolling on? Does quality of the performance matter or do the audiences just want to hear something shocking so they can feel outre?
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Post by spartacusmills on Feb 20, 2006 10:52:44 GMT
It was 'lacklustre' because their equipment wasn't working. PB's mixer got damaged before the soundcheck so they could only perform two songs and some improv before walking off. A disappointing night - hope they come back and do a full show.
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Post by brownbomber on Feb 20, 2006 11:09:42 GMT
it was lacklustre because they are tired old men milking their 'name' for money. the technical issue was a addressed and the were given a perfectly good replacement mixer. Best's technical ineptitude and comical onstage persona combined to undermine the show. In general though their noise sources, processing and mixing were derivative and uninspired. It only takes a small amount of understanding to realise these two as 'musicians' are second rate. Conceptually they innovate musically they are derivative.
From Come to the Sutcliffe Jugend derivative phase to this current post 'Movement 2000' poor japan noise sound they have always been found wanting. Their only vaguely original sound/voice innovation was the 'Shitfun' sound although that was reallyonlyan adaptation of the SJ sound - and that was long ago.
Now they are trading on past glories for cold cash
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Post by Lesson No1 on Feb 20, 2006 11:40:25 GMT
The mixer wasn't damaged before soundcheck, it was damaged between soundcheck and show. The replacement mixer was "perfectly good" in that it was a working mixer, but technically it didn't fulfil all the fuctions Philip needed, hence the cut set.
I can see why anyone might have been disappointed by the show, but if you think Whitehouse has been "found wanting" since Come, why the fuck did you make the journey?
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Post by brownbomber on Feb 20, 2006 11:45:35 GMT
To see what they are up to now. After the reviews of their last three albums and their recent rennaissance and reassimilation into the 'normal' music scene this was the closest they had come to where I am based. Given that I paid my money and attended i feel a perfectly standard consumer deal has been done between us and I am free to express my opinion. You can't deny their standing in the industrial/experimental UK scene and as such it was an interesting proposition. I am old enough to have bought Come Org record on release so who would deny me a stroll down memory lane
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Post by spartacusmills on Feb 20, 2006 12:14:43 GMT
Lesson No.1, are you going to try and rebook Whitehouse?
What was the African stuff played over the PA before they came on stage?
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Post by Lesson No1 on Feb 20, 2006 12:55:18 GMT
It was a Haitian voodoo compilation, out last year on Soul Jazz
May book Consumer Electronics again if Philip is up for it, probably not a full Whitehouse show again in the near future though
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Post by Tinow on Feb 20, 2006 13:53:13 GMT
I'm sure they still rock! And as soon as they get to the stage when I see them, I'll be proud and happy to be there.
I need a Movemenet 2000 live on right front of me before I die.
We love you Whitehouse, always.
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Post by absolute on Feb 20, 2006 16:59:17 GMT
Is it really necessary to review the show with personal insults regarding their physical appearances?
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Post by margaras on Feb 20, 2006 19:22:11 GMT
it was lacklustre because they are tired old men milking their 'name' for money. the technical issue was a addressed and the were given a perfectly good replacement mixer. Best's technical ineptitude and comical onstage persona combined to undermine the show. In general though their noise sources, processing and mixing were derivative and uninspired. It only takes a small amount of understanding to realise these two as 'musicians' are second rate. Conceptually they innovate musically they are derivative. From Come to the Sutcliffe Jugend derivative phase to this current post 'Movement 2000' poor japan noise sound they have always been found wanting. Their only vaguely original sound/voice innovation was the 'Shitfun' sound although that was reallyonlyan adaptation of the SJ sound - and that was long ago. Now they are trading on past glories for cold cash you're talking absolute bollocks. the style of tracks like "shitfun" were influenced not at all by SJ, but rather alvin lucier's "bird and person dyning" (the album "erector", incidentally, was recorded pre-SJ in 1981). without whitehouse, SJ would not exist. treading in past glories? whitehouse has been, and continues to, move on in leaps and bounds ahead of almost all other "power electronic" / "harsh noise" artists (this is especially notable from "halogen" to "asceticists"), in terms of aesthetic, vocals, lyrics and textural and acoustic variety. you want something that treads the same monotonous path? how about merzbow (although, i will admit he has done, ooh, maybe three good albums)... and if you want to hear something like that done well, have a try of robert ashley's 1964 piece "the wolfman". although maybe you just want to listen to someone shout "taste the cock of your master" over some static. insulting the physical appearence of the musicians is so pathetically shallow. trying listening to the band Steps, i'm sure they would be right up your own retentive alley. also, i shall point out that most of the gigs from the come org era that you seem to wank so feverently over often didnt exceed thirty minutes in length.
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Post by brownbomber on Feb 20, 2006 20:27:56 GMT
Someones panties are in a bunch I will state my case fully. I am no Whitehouse fan, intially they amused me (80-83), then they offended me now they amuse me again. I realise all of this is about me and not about them at all. I have been 'engaged' with Whitehouse for 25 years on and off. William Bennett fascinates and irritates me. I wish I had his intellect, discipline and looks and am glad I haven't got his ego, hang-ups or lack of musical ability. If you examine his work from rhythm guitarist to band leader to 'established' icon it is clear to see that his strengths are his concepts, drive and attention to detail. Certain elements of the guitars on the first Come record trace their influences back to Black Sabbath, his use of sequenced synths, rhythm and his production techniques are naive and awkward. His use of voice manipulation is clearly developed out of a discomfort at his own vocal abilities. I am aware of Lucier and Ashley , also David Tudors work with feedback machines and ring modulation. I will however state the proposition that Bennett's experience of Kevin Tomkins work was epiphanous. Tomkins developed the vocal style and the brutal setting and Bennett absorbed it. Tomkins work predates 'Shitfun' as far as I am aware. I may be wrong about this but twice in interview I have quizzed Bennet over this and he has reacted with typical prickliness and obfuscation. Bennett is a master of PR and has always been fastidious with regard to relating to fans and the work of his imprints. He has also had a habit of assimilating that which he likes be that Tomkins, Bennett, Japanoise or Sotos, into his work. I have no problem with this although Bennett it seems has issues with acknowledging it. There were no signs whatsoever of Japanoise tropes in the Whitehouse sound until after he had heard the Japanese do it. Criticising Merzbow is neither here nor there when it comes to an assesment of the current Whitehouse noise technique. Overlaying multiple computer generated/replayed loops is not a new technique and their execution of these techniques is not the best and not the worst. Middling really, they don't develop intensity that well on record and they certainly did not in performance in Cardiff. Best may have been using a compromised rig but Bennett wasn't serving up anything remarkable in the context of Noise Music. With regard to personal comments re: Bennett and Best I have this to say. Whitehouse work involves confrontational challenge, manipulating emotional states and 'shocking' their peers. In order to enter into the spirit of their 'art' (which as we all know very well they refuse to 'justify') it is my feeling that one must 'attack' in a similar way. Out shocking them is not an option but utilising emotional techniques to irritate them could have some effect. each of them spends a deal of time berating and abusing their audience and picking throught the foibles of the listener with a fine tooth comb. Surely they are putting themselves up or some sparring. Bennett's onstage manner and attire is ridiculous, he isn't really dominating anyone or endangering anyone at all. The thought is not the deed. You could easily transplant the look and movement of Bennett to a working Mens Club singer and it would be completely acceptable. Best is ridiculous in the extreme, he has no presence, exerts no command of language and to an average person appears to be a frustrated middle aged man having a tantrum. The only commendable aspect of his physical perfomance on stage is it's lack of inhibition. To attack that lack of inhibition and to seed doubt seems to be wholly within the spirit of Whitehouse. They are after all employing humour as a major component of their work, even though many of their audience miss this. Bennett hinself misses humour that is aimed at him. He feels that 'Her Name is on my Cock' by Gerogerigegege is a tribute to his ouvre, Juntaro is taking the piss. How many people would take notice if their subject matter were the mundane rather than the shocking? Am I the only person who finds their rhetoric, posturing and language embarrasing coming from such well behaved middle class boys? Remember 'You love it really don't you' - I am just as engaged as any adoring fan I just use them to fuel a different emotional reaction. 'What does Molesting you mean?'
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Post by motownoni on Feb 20, 2006 20:36:00 GMT
You see the truth is Everybody wanna know how close me and Snoop is And who I'm still cool wit Then I got these fake-ass niggaz I first drew with Claimin that they non-violent, talkin like they *voice sample* Spit venom in interviews, speakin on reunions Move units, then talk shit and we can do this Until then - I ain't even speakin your name Just keep my name outta yo' mouth and we can keep it the same Nigga, it ain't that I'm too big to listen to the rumors It's just that I'm too damn big to pay attention to 'em That's the difference
[Chorus: Phish (repeat 2X)]
What's the difference between me and you? You talk a good one - but you don't do what you supposed to do I act on what I feel and never deal wit emotions I'm used to livin big dog style and straight coastin
[Xzibit] Yo I stay wit it While you try to perpetrate, play wit it Never knew about the next level until Dre did it (YEAH)
and so on and on
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Post by Joe Chip on Feb 20, 2006 21:39:54 GMT
brownbomber - I've really enjoyed reading your articulate posts. The Cardiff show sounds like it was a bit of a flop really.
I wonder if you've actually heard any of the last three albums though? WH have transformed themselves quite a bit - this is no longer about juvenile 'power' fixations and is more about engaging in a dialogue with the listener. I barely notice WH's music lately, the music isn't really the point. The texts have become the primary concern.
Do you really think that WB & PB are unaware of their unlikely/ridiculous appearance onstage?
For years I wondered what it was that I saw in WH, there was something badly lacking but I couldn't help the fascination. In retrospect it was like staring at a hand pointing upwards at the sky. With the release of 'Cruise' I could suddenly see where the finger was pointing - and with 'A-2006' I can see the stars...
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Post by ljp on Feb 20, 2006 23:22:18 GMT
OK I didn't see this Wales show or the last one in Boston but I did catch them in NYC. Well I had fun but then I didn't really expect much considering I've seen tons of bands in all sorts of genres, but I still plan to see 'em in Buffalo...
Anyways, well so most of Bennetts lyrics come from the last books he read and the last newspaper he looked at. So what? Nico (of the Velvet Underground), when she started to write her own songs (eventually to appear on her second album The Marble Index) it was apparent to some people that she plagiarised from Silvia Plath quite a bit. But that doesn't make it less of an album to me at all. I've heard that prick from Anomalous Records say that Steve Stapelton of Nurse With Wound was merely an imitator of people like Richard Astley and not an originator. Do his fans really give a fuck, really? C'mon!!!!
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Post by margaras on Feb 20, 2006 23:23:37 GMT
Someones panties are in a bunch no they aren't, i like my genitals to hang loose when i'm front of the computer these points are in no way relevant to the recent whitehouse material, and are extremely debatable anyhow... assumptions based on subjective opinion, not fact. the album "bird seed" has relatively little use of extreme vocal manipulation. the first SJ releases were from 1982, as far as i am aware. did you attempt to interview bennett with such blantant agendas? er, where exactly are the "japanoise tropes" in the whitehouse sound? why bother? it shows more about yourself than anything. not in recent times. they barely seem to acknowledge the audience since sotos left the group. another assumption. i do not claim to be a victim of abuse, eating disorders, self harm or artistic pretention. the questions posed by whitehouse do not apply to me to be honest. i'm not andrea dworkin but i do enjoy "princess disease". you obviously havent heard "asceticists". an assumption and generalisation of their "audience". their live shows have huge amounts of humour, but you seem concerned that bennett looks "ridiculous". considering the content of general media such as tabloid newpapers, the seeds of whitehouse's lyrical material (especially of late) ARE the mundane. sexual abuse, victimhood, control methods, war etc are all so commonplace as to constitute the mundane. it is how it is treated that makes the difference. and regarding the live situation, whitehouse is project which inherently involves a lack of compromise. if one is truely proud about what one does, then there can be no acceptance of the substandard (i am talking about the equipment here, not the subjective opinions of particular listeners, i must add) thank you for the articulate argument anyhow.
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