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Post by skidblue on Nov 6, 2007 22:16:15 GMT
I was pretty impressed with Sicko actually, and I'm no advocate of Micheal Moore - but it was his best rant...
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Post by pissfun on Nov 7, 2007 23:02:42 GMT
Though a pretty loose definition of "film," I watched Zeitgeist yesterday. Apart from pulling several dozen historical quotes wildly out of context, misrepresent a bevy of footage (including linking a video of the Madrid attack with the Tavistock Square incident) and rehashing over the same literalist conspiracy fodder favored by the David Ickes of the world, it was fairly worthwhile viewing. Unless you're a relative novice where the notion of one world government is concerned, I can't say that anything new will be learned from the video, but its value is in combining a number of important datum in a single resource.
That being said, where 9/11 and the so-called new world order are concerned, Zeitgeist is guilty of the same oversimplification and revisionism as most bits of conspiracy prop are. I also found it amusing that Zeitgeist's film maker failed to credit David Icke as an excerpt from one of his seminars is intercut with a bit of Bill Hicks at the end of the film.
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Post by knuckles on Nov 8, 2007 17:46:21 GMT
I have similar views on Zeitgeist. Pretty simply, but for putting a point across, fairly effective. Whether or not you agree with what is said. But, as should be the case, the essential conclusion is make your own mind up. However, to do so requires all the facts and that's where the authorities have come up short (for whatever reason) and the reactionaries come over a skewed. I found the first part about religion very refreshing. I've found, in general, that many people from the 'conspiracy' side of things tend to be Christian or spiritual. However, I'm not sure on the validity of many of their arguements, despite them seeming logical and reasonable. The references for this section are fairly sparse too.
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Post by patrickhernandez on Nov 9, 2007 13:41:54 GMT
I've found, in general, that many people from the 'conspiracy' side of things tend to be Christian or spiritual. However, I'm not sure on the validity of many of their arguements, despite them seeming logical and reasonable. The references for this section are fairly sparse too. that's because to all intents and purposes, a subscription to conspiracy theories is an alternative religion or belief system. they provide exciting and attractive answers and solutions to questions/anxieties people have but feel helpless and impotent to alter or would prefer to be less mundane. always 'helpful': www.skeptic.com/www.snopes.com/
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Post by pissfun on Nov 26, 2007 19:10:30 GMT
I've found, in general, that many people from the 'conspiracy' side of things tend to be Christian or spiritual. that's because to all intents and purposes, a subscription to conspiracy theories is an alternative religion or belief system. they provide exciting and attractive answers and solutions to questions/anxieties people have but feel helpless and impotent to alter or would prefer to be less mundane. excellent point. conspiracy theories, particularly when they offer answers to tragedies like 9/11 by positing them as "inside jobs" present the public with a vague yet definite solution to a trauma otherwise completely outside the realm of normal human understanding. if I can convince you that the American government has the ability to level two buildings, damage another and crash four planes on a random Tuesday morning, it also suggests that the American government has the ability to not do those things. so yes, the 9/11 conspiracy conveys the government as a sort of demiurge, capable of killing or not killing its children as it sees fit. for any number of reasons, a lot of people would rather not infuse a group of bumbling brown men in sandals with power of this kind.
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Post by katred on Nov 26, 2007 22:21:44 GMT
that's because to all intents and purposes, a subscription to conspiracy theories is an alternative religion or belief system. they provide exciting and attractive answers and solutions to questions/anxieties people have but feel helpless and impotent to alter or would prefer to be less mundane. excellent point. conspiracy theories, particularly when they offer answers to tragedies like 9/11 by positing them as "inside jobs" present the public with a vague yet definite solution to a trauma otherwise completely outside the realm of normal human understanding. if I can convince you that the American government has the ability to level two buildings, damage another and crash four planes on a random Tuesday morning, it also suggests that the American government has the ability to not do those things. so yes, the 9/11 conspiracy conveys the government as a sort of demiurge, capable of killing or not killing its children as it sees fit. for any number of reasons, a lot of people would rather not infuse a group of bumbling brown men in sandals with power of this kind. although i find them interesting, i always find conspiracy theories to be rather like religion in their construction. i think people want to believe that there is some underlying logic, some grand master plan at work, even if that master plan seems malevolent. it's less frightening than thinking that things are chaotic, random and unpredictable.
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Post by pissfun on Nov 26, 2007 23:49:47 GMT
although i find them interesting, i always find conspiracy theories to be rather like religion in their construction. i think people want to believe that there is some underlying logic, some grand master plan at work, even if that master plan seems malevolent. it's less frightening than thinking that things are chaotic, random and unpredictable. it's also worth noting that for many people, the interest in and yearning for conspiracies are borne of ethnocentrism. as douglas rushkoff printed out in a skillfully written piece on the lunacy of most 9/11 conspiracy theories, the skeptic presupposes that his vastly superior white nation couldn't possibly have been one-upped by a group of middle eastern men, and certainly not without the endorsement of the white hegemony. in addition to pushing everything back to a safe and softly cradled posture of control, the 9/11 conspiracy posits the ultimate dominion of the American government; a body so profligately brilliant that it can mastermind, catalyze and thwart every plot from the most monstrously conceived to the most infinitesimally trivial all in the name of its insatiable omniscience. Who knew that all of the anti-American sentiment around the world was limited to the impotence of flag burning and protest marches?
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bubbles
Praetorian Guard
"Fuck yerself"
Posts: 64
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Post by bubbles on Dec 3, 2007 23:59:45 GMT
Don't think this has been mentioned... 'Cure' (Kiyoshi Kurosawa/1997) Understated, unnerving, deals in the main with issues around identity...and auto-suggestion/hypnotism, so you can see why it may be of interest. Seriously, it's fucking amazing, just watched it and I'm going to have to watch it again within the next 24 hours just to figure out what it is I've seen. www.imdb.com/title/tt0123948/
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Post by drillbitch on Dec 5, 2007 22:59:41 GMT
Just watched Day of the Locust again, fantastic film and surely that crowd scene at the end must rank as one of the most truly horrifying moments in cinema history.
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Post by brokenjoy on Dec 6, 2007 0:00:10 GMT
The Comeback, a schlockly but reasonably gruesome mid/late '70s Brit horror flick featuring Pamela Stephenson. Pasolini's Porcile, not as good as I remember it but worth a second viewing. Pabst's Pandora's Box, always good.
Can anyone recommend some European films from 1977 to 1984 with "punk" themes? Not documentaries.
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Post by drillbitch on Dec 6, 2007 10:21:08 GMT
The Comeback, a schlockly but reasonably gruesome mid/late '70s Brit horror flick featuring Pamela Stephenson. Pasolini's Porcile, not as good as I remember it but worth a second viewing. Pabst's Pandora's Box, always good. Can anyone recommend some European films from 1977 to 1984 with "punk" themes? Not documentaries. Derek Jarman's Jubilee is an obvious one or were you looking for films specifically made outside the UK?
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Post by patrickhernandez on Dec 6, 2007 11:37:43 GMT
The Comeback, a schlockly but reasonably gruesome mid/late '70s Brit horror flick featuring Pamela Stephenson. Pasolini's Porcile, not as good as I remember it but worth a second viewing. Pabst's Pandora's Box, always good. Can anyone recommend some European films from 1977 to 1984 with "punk" themes? Not documentaries. hmmm...European made 'punk' films... I thought Broken Glass was a joke when it came out, but seeing it again it's actually a fairly well constructed film and better than most 'eaten up & spat out by the biz' stories, so thanks to Dodi Al Fayed for leaving us that. Saw an utterly woeful film of that book 'The Punk' by Gideon Sams in Tokyo. Was intrigued as I hadn't even known the film existed. Watching as much of it as I could endure I would have preferred to remain in blissful ignorance. Dreadful stuff. S'pose if you hung around certain scenes in London in the '80s you could say Christiane F has a certain 'punk theme'.
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Post by bayros on Dec 6, 2007 12:09:52 GMT
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Post by patrickhernandez on Dec 6, 2007 15:44:53 GMT
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Post by brokenjoy on Dec 6, 2007 22:43:23 GMT
Thanks for getting back to me but I've seen all of the above. Just wondering if there was something like Breaking Glass meets Christiane F. out there that I didn't know about.
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