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Post by thomas on Dec 28, 2005 6:57:07 GMT
I'm curious if we have any readers of The Wire magazine on this board, and what your opinions are regarding them. I've written for them a few times in the past, but don't really know much about their editorial policy or their personal opinions of Whitehouse / Susan Lawly.
I find it odd, though, how many recent issues of the magazine have featured capsule reviews or coverage of Whitehouse-related events, whereas there was not even a single MENTION of the band pre-"Cruise" that I can recall, in the magazine's 20-year plus history. Other artists with unpopular viewpoints (see NON for example) have suffered similar look-the-other-way treatment.
A friend tells me that, when Peter Rehberg of MEGO Records was on the judges' panel for the Ars Electronica awards in Austria, that he was gunning for Whitehouse to get the main festival prize for the 'Bird Seed' album- a certain major Wire contributor was also on the panel, and threatened a "walkout" if Whitehouse were nominated, because they are 'fascists' etc. etc.
Anyone else have a Wire opinion to share, or have some thoughts on their music coverage?
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Post by margaras on Dec 28, 2005 13:03:24 GMT
i've been reading the wire magazine for many years now, and over the last year it has gone completely downhill. i have always had a bit of a problem with the pseudo-academic and often pretentious tone of some of the writers, and their rather selective "liberal" bias, but at least they were giving very underrated music the coverage it has deserved but never got. over the last year though, its become so bland, boring and visually ugly. endless fucking lists of "best cover versions", "best songs", "best riffs" and "comedy music" (that one particularly pissed me off, i'll come back to that). i saw their end of year round up recently and i was shocked by how safe and lame it was. there was a hell of a lot of really amazing releases this year by people who the wire would usually have covered, but instead we have LCD soundsystem being celebrated and the writers going on about the "pure rock and roll" of the white stripes. i'm not a snob or eliteist, but that shit is getting enough coverage in all the other mainstream music press.
regarding the treatment of whitehouse in the wire, it really exemplifies their willful ignorance and blinkered attitude. before the release of "cruise", whitehouse was only mentioned to be dispariged, laughed at. or quite obviously ignored in articles where they should have been mentioned. i thought when keenan did his noise primer, that things would get a bit better, as his piece on "dedicated to peter kurten" was quite intelligent and incisive. but then the wire gave "bird seed" the most stupid, pointless and absolutely worthles review i have ever read. then in that dreadful article on humour in music ("laugh til it hurts" with a appalling cover image which seemed so stuffed-shirt, ho ho ho, we can be funny) they covered whitehouse, completely ignoring the serious themes and intelligent measured lyrical content on the last three albums, to snigger at titles with words "dick" or "cock" in them, then finally insulting those who listen to whitehouse, claiming the punchline of "their" joke is that people listen to them. incidentally, in the same article they dispariged the work of frank zappa is just being purile and nothing else. what bullshit. and how the hell they can go and praise the likes of wolf eyes is beyond me. i think the way its going is that they are just gonna reveal themselves to be more enamoured by the world of conventional "rock" music more than anything else.
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Post by ljp on Dec 29, 2005 0:19:07 GMT
Well I read it occasionally if there's a piece on a band, performer or style of music I like. I will give it credit as it's one magazine that dares to print things about more difficult or experimental music, but alot of their approach tends to be rather highbrow. BUT they have Edwin Pouncey and Byron Coley...
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Post by thomas on Dec 29, 2005 5:52:39 GMT
regarding the treatment of whitehouse in the wire, it really exemplifies their willful ignorance and blinkered attitude. before the release of "cruise", whitehouse was only mentioned to be dispariged, laughed at. or quite obviously ignored in articles where they should have been mentioned. i thought when keenan did his noise primer, that things would get a bit better, as his piece on "dedicated to peter kurten" was quite intelligent and incisive. but then the wire gave "bird seed" the most stupid, pointless and absolutely worthles review i have ever read. then in that dreadful article on humour in music ("laugh til it hurts" with a appalling cover image which seemed so stuffed-shirt, ho ho ho, we can be funny) they covered whitehouse, completely ignoring the serious themes and intelligent measured lyrical content on the last three albums, to snigger at titles with words "dick" or "cock" in them, then finally insulting those who listen to whitehouse, claiming the punchline of "their" joke is that people listen to them. Actually, that "humor" piece partially inspired this thread in the first place- I was also annoyed how they attempted to make Whitehouse seem like the Andy Kaufmann of avant-electronic music or something. And this is a problem I have not only with the 'new look' Wire, but also with music audiences in general- latching onto the most immediately understood aspect of a multi-faceted artistic undertaking (in this case, the profanity in Whitehouse lyrics) is a sign of pure laziness, journalistic or otherwise. Researching the complex, obtuse lyrical code of the last few releases, and making an informed conclusion about them, might take someone days- whereas it's easy enough to beat deadline by just hacking out a silly premise about dick jokes. I like the fact that Whitehouse is forcing listeners to do some work and to listen ACTIVELY- to loosely paraphrase William "just because you don't like something, doesn't mean it isn't good for you." Having said all this, I'm a big fan of Biba Kopf....not sure if he contributes to the Wire anymore, but he has written some of the best, concise pieces I've read to date on 'difficult' music.
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Post by tisborroinfaccia on Dec 29, 2005 18:31:31 GMT
Actually i read only one Wire issue. Then i went back to old Donald Duck comics by Carl Barks.
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djgyn
Praetorian Guard
Posts: 87
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Post by djgyn on Jan 1, 2006 20:59:40 GMT
Actually i read only one Wire issue. Then i went back to old Donald Duck comics by Carl Barks. Probably a smart choice...
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Post by knuckles on Jan 16, 2006 17:44:25 GMT
The Wire seems to be the self-appointed mouthpiece of experimental music, thus their holier-than-thou approach. A bit like what Henderson was like in the 80s. Fuck 'em, follow your own nose, I say.
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Post by blackoperations on Mar 24, 2006 9:03:27 GMT
I've bought The Wire every month for the best part of 10 years. I loved it at first (the second issue I bought had NWW on the front cover - I couldn't believe it!) turned me onto loads of stuff - read every page, just about. But it has gone downhill alot over the last couple of years, and now I probably only read half of it, if that. I sometimes read more of Terrorizer in the shop!
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Post by twilight on Jul 21, 2007 18:10:55 GMT
When they get mentioned in WIRE it is generally positive e.g sonic youth name checking them, Peter Rehberg defending them etc. I find the music of whitehouse boring and was not shocked by the lyrics as I had read De Sade etc previously. What intrigues me is their apparent lack of morality. They seem to claim they enjoy their subject material, which as they point out is also titilating for the mass media for some members of society . I believe they are trying to intellectualise what most humans find repulsive because they need to justify their sub-human feelings. Human society has been a steady progression away from what Whitehouse celebrate, individuals and individual situations do not change that simple fact. Yes we have the capacity to wipe ourselves out but this has not happened. Many people in the world now have a healthy life and are better educated. Contrast that with a hundred years ago. Pessimism and nihilism may sell records but do not actually reflect the vast majority of our lifes, only moments here and there. We cannot afford to be amoral.
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Post by frankfurter on Jul 21, 2007 18:26:27 GMT
When they get mentioned in WIRE it is generally positive e.g sonic youth name checking them, Peter Rehberg defending them etc. I find the music of whitehouse boring and was not shocked by the lyrics as I had read De Sade etc previously. What intrigues me is their apparent lack of morality. They seem to claim they enjoy their subject material, which as they point out is also titilating for the mass media for some members of society . I believe they are trying to intellectualise what most humans find repulsive because they need to justify their sub-human feelings. Human society has been a steady progression away from what Whitehouse celebrate, individuals and individual situations do not change that simple fact. Yes we have the capacity to wipe ourselves out but this has not happened. Many people in the world now have a healthy life and are better educated. Contrast that with a hundred years ago. Pessimism and nihilism may sell records but do not actually reflect the vast majority of our lifes, only moments here and there. We cannot afford to be amoral. dear god, ;D what the hell is this nut doing on this forum?
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Post by twilight on Jul 21, 2007 20:11:43 GMT
Sorry to offend anyone but I was giving an opinion asked for by Thomas regarding WIRE readers. I am interested in the amoral nature of the lyrics and have only heard Bird Seed, maybe if I can get the message in the tracks I could try their other albums as obviously many people do like them.
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Post by dwb on Jul 21, 2007 20:33:15 GMT
well you are here, so you are oviously intrested in them anyway..whether from a negative point of view or positive.....
dont worry its nice around here!!!! use your voice...
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Post by ljp on Jul 21, 2007 23:39:25 GMT
When they get mentioned in WIRE it is generally positive e.g sonic youth name checking them, Peter Rehberg defending them etc. I find the music of whitehouse boring and was not shocked by the lyrics as I had read De Sade etc previously. What intrigues me is their apparent lack of morality. They seem to claim they enjoy their subject material, which as they point out is also titilating for the mass media for some members of society . I believe they are trying to intellectualise what most humans find repulsive because they need to justify their sub-human feelings. Human society has been a steady progression away from what Whitehouse celebrate, individuals and individual situations do not change that simple fact. Yes we have the capacity to wipe ourselves out but this has not happened. Many people in the world now have a healthy life and are better educated. Contrast that with a hundred years ago. Pessimism and nihilism may sell records but do not actually reflect the vast majority of our lifes, only moments here and there. We cannot afford to be amoral. Justification of sub-human feelings? What about Prussian Blue? You think Whitehouse are bad...
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Post by cblanger on Jul 22, 2007 8:02:18 GMT
and have only heard Bird Seed, I could try their other albums ...as obviously many people do like them. it seems that you know absolutely NOTHING about WH, Mister expert !
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Post by davidh on Jul 22, 2007 23:51:26 GMT
I'm going to assume twilight wants an honest answer here, and try as best I can to answer it for myself. I've been on this board long enough to know that there are lots of divergent and personal opinions here.
Their music's definitely not for everyone, and many people I've played WH to have been turned off straight away, generally by the 'wall of sound'. As a Wire reader, though, and presumably somebody who listens to noise/avant garde/free jazz/etc (or some of those), I'm interested in what makes you find the music 'boring'. Is it the repetitiveness/minimalism? The sound itself? The fact that there are vocals?
That would be a factor if the purpose of Whitehouse was to 'shock' people. I think that might have been a factor in some of the early material, but much less so as time has gone on. But to use your example, do you think that De Sade was writing only in order to 'shock' people?
Actually, one of the things that I liked most about Whitehouse when I first came across them was precisely the point that they didn't make out they were showing the underside of humanity to expose the media's hypocrisy or whatever. They were 'saying the unsayable' because they wanted to say it, not because it was 'making a statement', one way or another. I'm not going to go into a discussion of relative moralities, but while the basis of Whitehouse's morality might not be as obvious as some other artists, their records (particularly the last few) have a very strong moral sense.
I'm sorry, but you're really losing me with this. What on earth do you mean by 'sub-human feelings'? Do you mean evil? Do you mean lust? Do you mean anger? How are these any less 'human' than goodness, chasteness or level-headedness? Denying those emotions and feelings has always caused more problems than it's solved, but even if they were the problem, they are what they are, and can't be wished away (for a cite, see the Catholic Church over the past couple of millenia).
Again, I'm not seeing your point. Whitehouse are MUSICIANS - they're not actually axe murderers or politicians or religious leaders. The status of the doomsday clock doesn't have anything to do with the sort of music that people want to make, or that we want to listen to. And Whitehouse celebrate, more than anything else, what William Burroughs sarcastically called 'life in all its rich variety'. Human potential and weakness. It's just as easy to hear their records as calls for rampant self actualisation than for nihilism.
But does that make the world better? Who knows? But again, I'm not seeing the connection to any music.
Yep, that's why Whitehouse currently have six records in the Billboard top 100, and vapid pop music never sells more than thirty to fifty copies. OK, sarcasm aside, there's something you're missing. To the vast majority of listeners to Whitehouse who I've come across, their records are not in any way nihilistic. Again, as a Wire reader, you must know that you hear music differently to your parents or neighbours.
There's a certain ecstasy to hearing music that seems especially designed for your nervous system and personality. The last fifteen seconds of 'Princess Disease' which segues into 'Movement 2000' on the Cruise album is as close to my personal idea of heaven as I can imagine being created through sound. Everyone who I play it for thinks I'm nuts, but I stopped deciding what I wanted to enjoy based on other people's feelings when I was thirteen. Sorry it doesn't work for you - but you have to realise that I'm just as 'amoral' for enjoying Whitehouse as I am for enjoying watching Doctor Who - in other words, not at all.
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