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Post by Nomad on Dec 8, 2005 17:32:20 GMT
The music, its contents, its source material: To me, Whitehouse and Co. have always been a step backwards behind levels Throbbing Gristle already had achieved in 1977.
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Post by Joe Chip on Dec 8, 2005 18:27:18 GMT
I certainly don't think there'd be a Whitehouse without TG, but TG took a different route after 'DOA' and were always more 'musical' anyway.
Recent Whitehouse lyrical content actually outclasses GP-O's esoteric/literary angle on almost every score.
The types of source material recently used by WH are as far as I know unique in music - perhaps the early Manic Street Preachers material rivalled it for intelligence, but their music was generally horrible...
'Whitehouse and co' ? - there is only Whitehouse doing this stuff, they've never been a part of any scene least of all the dire 'power industrial' crap in the Cold Spring catalogue etc.
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Post by riseabovethis on Dec 8, 2005 18:52:01 GMT
I totally agree that WH lyrically superceeds TG regarding WH's recent output (Cruise & Bird Seed).
Musically, I always had the impression that WH were more conceptually coherent than TG.
Besides, WH have been active for 25 years now and in my opinion have run through a constant development, especially in the last few years. The recent TG reactivation has only shown that the "TG model" has become completely dated. I still enjoy TG's live material and most of the studio albums from the 70/80's. But the new material is mediocre at best. In terms of sound I regard "Cruise" & "Bird Seed" as both timeless and cutting edge. "TG Now" is not.
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Post by sypha666 on Dec 8, 2005 18:56:37 GMT
When I read the old KATAs or some of those Come Org. anthology books it surprises me, the level of vitriol that seemed to exist between the Gen. P-Orridge camp and the Come Org. loyalists. Ironically enough, early Whitehouse covered a lot of the same themes that early TG did, just the music was delivered more brutally. In those days, some people seemed to think that this made Whitehouse better then TG, but I don't think that just because something is more brutal makes it better... IMO, I think both bands were very good. They just took different paths, is all. Current Whitehouse explores themes that have nothing to do with those old days. In retrospect, I think TG's live shows is really where one should look, as some of their studio stuff can sound dated at times, but some of those live shows they did are just fantastic.
Actually, the first official TG studio album in 25 years is coming out this upcoming January, followed by the new Whitehouse album next month. Should be an interesting juxtaposition, I think. Interestingly enough, didn't Whitehouse do a show with Coil and Cartertutti a few years ago? I wonder if there was any animosity between the two camps, or if it's water under the bridge now...
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Post by patrickhernandez on Dec 8, 2005 19:12:29 GMT
To me, Whitehouse [and Co.] have always been a step backwards behind levels Throbbing Gristle already had achieved in 1977. To further explore this hypothesis you may first want to refer to this link ..... www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/23068727/tho, musically and thematically, would probably agree with u vis-a-vis "and Co."
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Post by ljp on Dec 8, 2005 22:30:01 GMT
When I read the old KATAs or some of those Come Org. anthology books it surprises me, the level of vitriol that seemed to exist between the Gen. P-Orridge camp and the Come Org. loyalists. Ironically enough, early Whitehouse covered a lot of the same themes that early TG did, just the music was delivered more brutally. In those days, some people seemed to think that this made Whitehouse better then TG, but I don't think that just because something is more brutal makes it better... IMO, I think both bands were very good. They just took different paths, is all. Current Whitehouse explores themes that have nothing to do with those old days. In retrospect, I think TG's live shows is really where one should look, as some of their studio stuff can sound dated at times, but some of those live shows they did are just fantastic. Actually, the first official TG studio album in 25 years is coming out this upcoming January, followed by the new Whitehouse album next month. Should be an interesting juxtaposition, I think. Interestingly enough, didn't Whitehouse do a show with Coil and Cartertutti a few years ago? I wonder if there was any animosity between the two camps, or if it's water under the bridge now... I'm not really sure what the main beef between Gen P-Orridge was... I thought maybe it started when GPO was credited on the Bradford Red Light District album and there was supposedly a phony GPO liner note pasted on it -- maybe a parody of the usual GPO liner notes on TG and other albums like Clock DVA's Thirst I suppose... In interviews GPO seemed to find Whitehouse content objectionable I guess. I have liked a great deal of TG's past output though...
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Post by caligula on Dec 9, 2005 9:42:50 GMT
I was under the impression that it was just GPO who disliked Whitehouse, if his comments in Wreckers Of Civilization are anything to go by anyhow.
To me the main difference between the two bands is Whitehouse are devoid of a romanticism regarding the same subject matters both bands covered.
Though I dont really know how they can be compared I get uniquely different pleasures out of each group.
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Post by sypha666 on Dec 9, 2005 15:52:08 GMT
No, Come Org. aimed a lot of vitriol at P-Orridge too, both in interviews and the katas. Usually calling him a "hippie" and things like that, or saying that TG had sold-out.
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Post by Nomad on Dec 10, 2005 22:30:06 GMT
To me, Whitehouse [and Co.] have always been a step backwards behind levels Throbbing Gristle already had achieved in 1977. To further explore this hypothesis you may first want to refer to this link ..... www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/23068727/tho, musically and thematically, would probably agree with u vis-a-vis "and Co." There is no need for getting rude: First of all, the electronic equipment of the whole scene at this time was similar. Then, TG used a lot more instruments than just synthesizers. And there have been Sutcliffe Jugend, Maurizio Bianchi, and some more and, later, of course many japanese Artists and Bands. I know what I am writing about. Don't get me wrong, some Whitehouse albums are quite ok and I admit that I don't know any new recordings yet.
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Post by riseabovethis on Dec 10, 2005 23:37:57 GMT
Don't get me wrong, some Whitehouse albums are quite ok and I admit that I don't know any new recordings yet. Which album is the last one you've heard? Besides, I agree with the statement above that both groups are very different conceptually, at least today. I also agree with you that there is definetly no need for getting rude.
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Post by knuckles on Dec 11, 2005 0:54:20 GMT
I think he was just messing about with the link - good one though. Syringing my ears hasn't helped a bit, niether......
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Post by patrickhernandez on Dec 11, 2005 20:08:25 GMT
And there have been Sutcliffe Jugend, Maurizio Bianchi, and some more and, later, of course many japanese Artists and Bands. I know what I am writing about.
fair enough + no offence meant
have always thought WH are pretty much the only horse running in a one horse race, though I agree there are some excellent japanese artists inspired by WH, MB, SJ etc.
artists who , notably, seem to eschew the now staid imagery so beloved of the adenoidal types who release dreadful CDs with pathology pics on the cover and evidently consider themselves to be the standard bearers of power electronics today (what i thought you meant by 'and Co' in your original post, sorry if i misconstrued) Still, suppose a boy's gotta have a hobby...
Art is largely dependnt on context. TG - seminal band that they were - were very much 'of their time'. Whitehouse are now. Everybody in the house say YEA
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Post by marck383 on Dec 12, 2005 2:34:05 GMT
Second Annual Report was a great record, especially Slugbait, lyrically. Everything after that took them slowly down hill, though much of it was still pretty great. The GPO artsy critical stuff written with the records was pretty tiresome after a while. By the way I find it pretty hard to take GPO seriously now that he's got breast implants. WTF is that all about? He says its an art project about creating a new gender or something like that. Whatever.
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Post by caligula on Dec 12, 2005 3:21:15 GMT
In my opinion DOA and Heathen Earth were far greater records, though I go to the industrial genre (for want of a better phrase) to appease my interest in sound.
In my opinion whitehouse have only become sonically interesting recently.
It is also interesting to note that some one would actually say:
when we're discussing a group who wrote a song called "I'm coming up your ass"
maybe?
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Post by sypha666 on Dec 12, 2005 4:34:37 GMT
Actually, I usually found G-PO's pretentions to be interesting, probably because I'm into that whole occult/Burroughsian scene mindest myself, though I can see how it might annoy people. I think P-Orridge's gender experiments are interesting, but I'm hoping he takes it to another level and starts changing species soon. Now that would be pretty cool...
Looking back at TG's studio output, I'd have to say that "Heathen Earth" is the best, though I'll always have a soft spot for "Second Annual Report", which was the first TG album I purchased (well, actually, I purchased the greatest hits first, but anyway...)
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